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	<title>Comments on: Tintin, nostalgia, and the question of harm</title>
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	<description>worldwide. webbed feats.</description>
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		<title>By: marisa</title>
		<link>http://mp285.com/2007/07/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>marisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mp285.com/2007/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/#comment-253</guid>
		<description>Willy,

I&#039;m going to assume you&#039;re responding to my post, since you include some words that I use. But I&#039;m not quite sure what you&#039;re getting at. This post isn&#039;t quite about morality as you would have it. And it&#039;s not about keeping people &quot;away&quot; from racist objects--though it might be interesting to ponder your claim that we should embrace such texts because they motivate people to social justice. Support the harm to enable the remedy; wag the dog.

And to be clear, my post is not about Tintin being a racist. Tintin is not a person; Tintin is a character in a book, the author of which himself has gone on to characterize as a regretful choice. 

And, since I&#039;ve never met you, I can&#039;t make any claim on your relative mental state in the wake of your deep feelings for Tintin-- though judging by what seems to come through as your resolute anger and indignation, I wonder why, insofar as my post is specifically about a sense of harm and alienation that might come from books like &lt;i&gt;Tintin in the Congo&lt;/i&gt; and some people&#039;s stalwart defense thereof, I wonder why you have expended so much energy on exposing these imagined flaws and thus rewriting my post so that it better says what you want it to say. Turning me into you-- is &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; social justice? Am I the dog? Or your straw-man?

Finally, I am also not quite sure why you have to drag Hello Kitty into this. No claim I have made is in regards to high or low culture in that way. I love the mall so I can&#039;t really hate on Kinkade; I saw all the LOTRs, and I think AI is an underrated classic, and, wait a minute! I&#039;m not the snob. You are-- projecting it onto me...

I mean, really, what post are you reading? How might you understand this post differently, if you weren&#039;t listening for the sneer that isn&#039;t here and the sarcasm you have identified in the wrong places? 

Indeed, it might have been nice to discuss this post more, but it is difficult to speak in the absence of listening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willy,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to assume you&#8217;re responding to my post, since you include some words that I use. But I&#8217;m not quite sure what you&#8217;re getting at. This post isn&#8217;t quite about morality as you would have it. And it&#8217;s not about keeping people &#8220;away&#8221; from racist objects&#8211;though it might be interesting to ponder your claim that we should embrace such texts because they motivate people to social justice. Support the harm to enable the remedy; wag the dog.</p>
<p>And to be clear, my post is not about Tintin being a racist. Tintin is not a person; Tintin is a character in a book, the author of which himself has gone on to characterize as a regretful choice. </p>
<p>And, since I&#8217;ve never met you, I can&#8217;t make any claim on your relative mental state in the wake of your deep feelings for Tintin&#8211; though judging by what seems to come through as your resolute anger and indignation, I wonder why, insofar as my post is specifically about a sense of harm and alienation that might come from books like <i>Tintin in the Congo</i> and some people&#8217;s stalwart defense thereof, I wonder why you have expended so much energy on exposing these imagined flaws and thus rewriting my post so that it better says what you want it to say. Turning me into you&#8211; is <i>that</i> social justice? Am I the dog? Or your straw-man?</p>
<p>Finally, I am also not quite sure why you have to drag Hello Kitty into this. No claim I have made is in regards to high or low culture in that way. I love the mall so I can&#8217;t really hate on Kinkade; I saw all the LOTRs, and I think AI is an underrated classic, and, wait a minute! I&#8217;m not the snob. You are&#8211; projecting it onto me&#8230;</p>
<p>I mean, really, what post are you reading? How might you understand this post differently, if you weren&#8217;t listening for the sneer that isn&#8217;t here and the sarcasm you have identified in the wrong places? </p>
<p>Indeed, it might have been nice to discuss this post more, but it is difficult to speak in the absence of listening.</p>
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		<title>By: Willy</title>
		<link>http://mp285.com/2007/07/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Willy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mp285.com/2007/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/#comment-252</guid>
		<description>I find the idea of restricting children&#039;s exposure to a pre-defined set of &quot;appropriate&quot;, &quot;moral&quot;, or &quot;good&quot; texts (I guess as defined by you), to be tiresome, presumptuous, condescending, and fundamentally immoral.  Let&#039;s not even get started on the idea of censoring texts for adults.  

The presupposition here is that minds are so polluted by seeing corrupting images or reading reprehensible material that they will be driven to bigotry, or at the very least introject loathsome philosophies into their unconscious, thus amplifying and validating the social presence (ubiquity?) of the ideas.  To that I say baloney.

Maybe sometimes people acquire prejudices by seeing them/reading about them.  Just as often the contrary is true and they are driven to moral outrage, motivated to struggle for social justice.  

Here is where you say that in THIS case the loathsome ideas are loathsome ideas in sheep&#039;s clothing, cutified by their presentation in a charming children&#039;s book. O.K., you might not say &quot;charming&quot;. Well, maybe some children are adorable little idiots who can&#039;t sort out the moral from the immoral, but if so, the world&#039;s in a hell of a lot of trouble, because at some point the people who &quot;know good from bad&quot;, like you, aren&#039;t going to be around to step up to the plate and pre-censor.  Personally, I&#039;d rather read them a book myself.  

As for the snide dismissal of the &quot;It doesn&#039;t hurt anyone rationale.&quot;  I read the books when I was little and &quot;I&#039;m fine&quot; (read &quot;I&#039;m not a racist.&quot;)  That&#039;s right.  Implying the opposite with a sneer and some sarcasm doesn&#039;t make it true. If people who witnessed scenes of racism and images of bigotry (cutified or not) were unable to work for civil rights, there would be no civil rights movement. It&#039;s by seeing injustice and the whole spectrum of behaviors that we are able to recognize the good from the bad. Then we choose.

And come on!  What a low tactic: equating Tintin with Hello Kitty!, Peter Jackson, and Steven Spielberg?  Come off it.  What&#039;s next?  Are you going to equate Tintin with Thomas Kinkade? &quot;In Touch&quot; magazine? Reality TV? I guess not only is Tintin immoral; he&#039;s committed a worse crime:  he&#039;s now kitschy and low-brow.  I guess that&#039;s pretty bad news for someone with such &quot;very fancy conceptual tools&quot; at their disposal.

By the way, if you think Tintin is always a racist, you&#039;d better have a look at &quot;Prisoners of the Sun&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the idea of restricting children&#8217;s exposure to a pre-defined set of &#8220;appropriate&#8221;, &#8220;moral&#8221;, or &#8220;good&#8221; texts (I guess as defined by you), to be tiresome, presumptuous, condescending, and fundamentally immoral.  Let&#8217;s not even get started on the idea of censoring texts for adults.  </p>
<p>The presupposition here is that minds are so polluted by seeing corrupting images or reading reprehensible material that they will be driven to bigotry, or at the very least introject loathsome philosophies into their unconscious, thus amplifying and validating the social presence (ubiquity?) of the ideas.  To that I say baloney.</p>
<p>Maybe sometimes people acquire prejudices by seeing them/reading about them.  Just as often the contrary is true and they are driven to moral outrage, motivated to struggle for social justice.  </p>
<p>Here is where you say that in THIS case the loathsome ideas are loathsome ideas in sheep&#8217;s clothing, cutified by their presentation in a charming children&#8217;s book. O.K., you might not say &#8220;charming&#8221;. Well, maybe some children are adorable little idiots who can&#8217;t sort out the moral from the immoral, but if so, the world&#8217;s in a hell of a lot of trouble, because at some point the people who &#8220;know good from bad&#8221;, like you, aren&#8217;t going to be around to step up to the plate and pre-censor.  Personally, I&#8217;d rather read them a book myself.  </p>
<p>As for the snide dismissal of the &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t hurt anyone rationale.&#8221;  I read the books when I was little and &#8220;I&#8217;m fine&#8221; (read &#8220;I&#8217;m not a racist.&#8221;)  That&#8217;s right.  Implying the opposite with a sneer and some sarcasm doesn&#8217;t make it true. If people who witnessed scenes of racism and images of bigotry (cutified or not) were unable to work for civil rights, there would be no civil rights movement. It&#8217;s by seeing injustice and the whole spectrum of behaviors that we are able to recognize the good from the bad. Then we choose.</p>
<p>And come on!  What a low tactic: equating Tintin with Hello Kitty!, Peter Jackson, and Steven Spielberg?  Come off it.  What&#8217;s next?  Are you going to equate Tintin with Thomas Kinkade? &#8220;In Touch&#8221; magazine? Reality TV? I guess not only is Tintin immoral; he&#8217;s committed a worse crime:  he&#8217;s now kitschy and low-brow.  I guess that&#8217;s pretty bad news for someone with such &#8220;very fancy conceptual tools&#8221; at their disposal.</p>
<p>By the way, if you think Tintin is always a racist, you&#8217;d better have a look at &#8220;Prisoners of the Sun&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: $3.60 &#183; "Me and you" in Mellencamp's "Jena"</title>
		<link>http://mp285.com/2007/07/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>$3.60 &#183; "Me and you" in Mellencamp's "Jena"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mp285.com/2007/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/#comment-239</guid>
		<description>[...] am reminded of something I was thinking during the Tintin controversy earlier this year, which I read as being as much about complicity as it was about empathy. As I said then, this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] am reminded of something I was thinking during the Tintin controversy earlier this year, which I read as being as much about complicity as it was about empathy. As I said then, this [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dagibit</title>
		<link>http://mp285.com/2007/07/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Dagibit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mp285.com/2007/tintin-nostalgia-and-the-question-of-harm/#comment-139</guid>
		<description>I thought the books made everyone but Tintin look stupid. Is that why you&#039;re saying it makes you feel like shit, or what? I did think black people looked a little wierd, but I don&#039;t remember anything from &quot;In The Congo&quot; and never felt offended. Looks like ill have to check up on it again.

But uh, just for fun :)
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6700/haddockreplysmalljg0.png</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the books made everyone but Tintin look stupid. Is that why you&#8217;re saying it makes you feel like shit, or what? I did think black people looked a little wierd, but I don&#8217;t remember anything from &#8220;In The Congo&#8221; and never felt offended. Looks like ill have to check up on it again.</p>
<p>But uh, just for fun <img src='http://mp285.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
<a href="http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6700/haddockreplysmalljg0.png" rel="nofollow">http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6700/haddockreplysmalljg0.png</a></p>
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